2023 has been a busy year for Matt Gline, CEO of Roivant Sciences. Several subsidiaries in the biotechnology company’s “hub-and-spoke” network have produced promising clinical trial results, while Roche just paid $7 billion deal to acquire a gut disease drug from one of them.

2023年一直是Roivant Sciences首席执行官Matt Gline的繁忙一年。生物技术公司“轮辐式”网络中的几家子公司已经取得了令人鼓舞的临床试验结果，而罗氏公司刚刚支付了70亿美元的交易，从其中一家公司购买了肠道疾病药物。

The data and the deal have improved Roivant’s position, giving it cash in a year when many of its peers have struggled to raise funding.

数据和交易改善了Roivant的地位，在许多同行努力筹集资金的一年内给了它现金。

“In a rough capital market, one lesson for me is there's no bad time to generate good clinical data,” said Gline.

“在一个粗略的资本市场中，对我来说的一个教训是没有时间产生良好的临床数据，”Gline说。

Roivant hasn't avoided every bump in the road. On Monday, its subsidiary Priovant shared negative data for a drug candidate in lupus. And the company has distanced itself from founder Vivek Ramaswamy, as he continues a U.S. presidential campaign that has featured sharp criticism of the Food and Drug Administration..

Roivant并没有避免道路上的每一次碰撞。周一，其子公司Priovant分享了狼疮候选药物的阴性数据。而且该公司与创始人Vivek Ramaswamy保持了距离，因为他继续进行美国总统竞选活动，对食品和药物管理局提出了尖锐的批评。。

BioPharma Dive spoke with Gline about Roivant’s plans for its new capital and the industry’s mood going into January’s tone-setting J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference. The following conversation has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.

BioPharma潜水与Gline讨论了Roivant的新资本计划以及1月份的基调设置J.P.Morgan医疗会议的行业情绪。为了清楚起见，对以下对话进行了轻微的编辑和浓缩。

BIOPHARMA DIVE: We spoke in January about your expectations for 2023. How has the year played out?

生物制药潜水：我们在1月份谈到了您对2023年的期望。那一年怎么样？

MATT GLINE: It’s been a rough year in the capital markets. But we had a great year and I think that's because of ultimately what the market valued. There's never a bad time to generate good clinical data. 2023 was a year when having phenomenal programs was quite valuable.

MATT GLINE：这是资本市场的一年。但我们有一个美好的一年，我认为这是因为最终市场价值。产生良好的临床数据从来没有不好的时机。2023年是拥有非凡节目非常有价值的一年。

We've had great data from Vtama in atopic dermatitis. We generated obviously terrific data from our anti-TL1A antibody that ultimately resulted in the transaction with Roche. That, for us, was what carried us this year: head down, generating good clinical data.

我们从Vtama获得了特应性皮炎的大量数据。我们从我们的抗TL1A抗体中产生了明显可怕的数据，最终导致了与罗氏的交易。对我们来说，这是今年给我们带来的：低头，产生良好的临床数据。

If you can put a bunch of great programs together and generate data that matters, the rest falls into place. In a rough capital market, one lesson for me is there's no bad time to generate good clinical data.

如果您可以将一些伟大的程序放在一起并生成重要的数据，其余的就会到位。在一个粗略的资本市场中，对我来说的一个教训是没有时间生成良好的临床数据。

Even so, the market challenges were real. We spent a lot of time this year thinking about how to capitalize ourselves, thinking about capital formation, thinking about a transition from our pre-IPO, pre-public shareholder base to our post-IPO, public shareholder base. That transition has been and continues to be something we're working on..

即便如此，市场挑战仍然存在。今年我们花了很多时间思考如何利用自己，思考资本形成，思考从IPO前，上市前股东基础到IPO后，公共股东基础的转变。这种转变已经并将继续成为我们正在努力的事情。。

What is on your mind going into 2024?

到2024年你的想法是什么？

GLINE: I try to avoid prognosticating on how the markets are going to look. I don't know if 2024 is going to be different. My first financial crisis in 2008 reminded me that often the darkest hour is the one that comes right before the dawn. Sometimes it takes peak despair before things turn around, and it feels a little bit like we're in peak despair right now, which could be in its own weird way a sign of optimism..

GLINE：我试图避免预测市场的外观。我不知道2024年是否会有所不同。我2008年的第一次金融危机提醒我，最黑暗的一个小时通常是黎明前的一个小时。有时候，在事情转向之前就需要极度绝望，感觉有点像我们现在处于极度绝望之中，这可能是一种奇怪的乐观迹象。。

For us, raising capital and being properly capitalized has been a question about thinking really carefully about what we're doing and how it's going to find a home in the public markets. It means thinking about every source of capital critically and making the right decisions, including things like the sale of the anti-TL1A program.

对我们来说，筹集资金和适当利用一直是一个关于仔细思考我们在做什么以及如何在公共市场找到家园的问题。这意味着要批判性地思考每一个资本来源，并做出正确的决定，包括销售反TL1A计划等事情。

On one hand, it's a great program and Roche is getting a great asset. It's a little sad to see it go. But on the other hand, it transformatively separates us from the capital markets in terms of capital need, which is going to let us do some really exciting things..

一方面，这是一个伟大的节目，罗氏正在获得巨大的资产。看到它有点悲伤。但另一方面，它在资本需求方面将我们与资本市场转型分离，这将让我们做一些非常令人兴奋的事情。。

How does it feel to pilot through all of this, especially after the deal with Roche?

如何通过所有这些试点，特别是在与罗氏交易之后？

GLINE: I'm super proud of our team. I'm proud of the programs that we brought together. I'm proud of the science that we conducted. I'm proud of the fact that the Immunovant team, for example, was able to take a program with a problem and develop around it in a next-generation program. I'm proud of our investments in our clinical teams for getting their heads around TL1A so quickly..

GLINE：我为我们的团队感到非常自豪。我为我们汇集的节目感到骄傲。我为我们进行的科学感到骄傲。例如，我为Immunovant团队能够制定一个有问题的计划并在下一代计划中围绕它发展而感到骄傲。我为我们对临床团队的投资感到自豪，因为他们能够如此迅速地关注TL1A。。

It feels good to have to have a year like that where everything works the way you want it to. It doesn't always work that way. I'm sure in the next weeks, or months, or year, we will have disappointing clinical data. We will be on the wrong side of the ship. Whatever it is, it's just the way our business works.

必须有一年这样的时间感觉很好，因为一切都按照你想要的方式工作。它并不总是以这种方式工作。我相信在接下来的几周，几个月或一年中，我们会有令人失望的临床数据。我们将处于船的错误一边。无论如何，这只是我们业务的运作方式。

But it feels great to be coming off the back of a 12-month period when we got a lot of calls right..

但是当我们接到很多正确的电话时，从12个月的时间回来感觉很好。。

Roche is paying $7.1 billion to acquire Roivant-owned Telavant and its gut disease drug.

罗氏支付71亿美元收购Roivant拥有的Telavant及其肠道疾病药物。

Courtesy of Roche

罗氏提供

Product-focused biotechs like the ones Roivant builds seem to be more attractive this year. How has your model helped you?

像Roivant建筑这样以产品为中心的生物技术今年似乎更具吸引力。你的模型如何帮助你？

GLINE: First of all, there are market environments where platforms are and are not given value. Great products always get valued. The product companies at some level are always en vogue. It's just a reminder that having promising medicines that will matter to patients is a pretty good antidote to a tough market.

GLINE：首先，有平台有价值的市场环境。伟大的产品总是受到重视。某种程度的产品公司总是流行起来。这只是一个提醒，有希望的药物对患者很重要，对于艰难的市场来说是一种非常好的解毒剂。

That was our experience this year..

这是我们今年的经历。。

Ultimately, our view has been to do good science, generate good data and the rest is going to fall into place on its own. The business model that we have where we're modular around small focused sets of products has been helpful to us this year.

最终，我们的观点是做得好科学，产生好数据，其余的将自行到位。我们拥有围绕小型重点产品模块化的业务模式今年对我们有所帮助。

One of the peculiar facts about biotech specifically is how so much investor interest in biotech flows from M&A exits. It's very rare that investors have a good experience holding a company that becomes commercial and launches products — not unheard of, but rare. Whereas a lot of what investors are trying to do is to catch a wave that results in an M&A outcome..

关于生物技术的一个特殊事实是，投资者对生物技术的兴趣有多少来自M＆A出口。投资者拥有一家商业化和推出产品的公司的良好经验非常罕见-这不是闻所未闻，而是罕见的。而投资者试图做的很多事情就是抓住一波导致并购结果的浪潮。。

Most of the M&A outcomes that happen in the world are for single product biotech companies, like Telavant. It was effectively a single product company. If you look back at this year's M&A haul, it was mostly in that bucket as well.

世界上发生的大多数并购成果都是针对单一产品生物技术公司，如Telavant。它实际上是一家单一产品公司。如果你回顾一下今年的M＆A运输，它也主要在那个桶中。

But the truth is, even in times where platform companies are ‘hot,’ a lot of the biggest M&A exits are still product-focused exits. Big pharma companies sometimes buy platforms, but much more often they buy a product and if a platform comes along, they're happy with that.

但事实是，即使在平台公司“热门”的时候，许多最大的初创企业仍然是以产品为中心的退出。大型制药公司有时会购买平台，但更多的时候他们会购买产品，如果平台出现，他们会对此感到满意。

Do you plan to look for more opportunities like the deal you struck with Roche?

你打算寻找更多的机会，比如你与罗氏打交道？

GLINE: I am much more focused right now in the other direction. We've got this great fortune from the amount of capital we've got; I'm much more focused on spending it carefully and on finding great programs to work on, than I am on what our next ‘exit’ is. We would like to be thoughtful and capital efficient around all those decisions..

GLINE：我现在更关注另一个方向。我们从我们获得的资金中获得了巨大的财富；与我的下一个“退出”是什么相比，我更专注于仔细支出和寻找更好的计划。我们希望在所有这些决定中保持深思熟虑和资本效率。。

For the things currently in our pipeline, we see them as phenomenal game-changing programs in every instance for some population or for many populations. We're excited to continue developing those programs and see where they lead. We're always open to discussions when they come up, but it's not [as if] we're out hunting for another Roche.

对于目前正在进行的事情，我们认为它们在某些人群或许多人群中都是现象性的改变游戏规则的程序。我们很高兴继续开发这些计划，看看他们在哪里领导。当他们出现时，我们总是可以接受讨论，但这并不是[好像]我们正在寻找另一个罗氏。

We're out hunting for another anti-TL1A..

我们正在寻找另一种抗TL1A。。

Roivant’s share price has been on a roller coaster ride this year, even when “Vants” have come out with positive data. What does that say about how investors view biotech right now?

Roivant的房价今年已经过山车了，即使“Vants”出现了积极的数据。投资者现在如何看待生物技术呢？

GLINE: This may not be the most popular comment in the world, but I think it's important to realize that investors are not arbiters of taste.They're not even at some level philanthropically trying to pick the best science. I think it often correlates with their own success to do a good job picking good science, but they're out there trying to build a portfolio that works for their business model.

GLINE：这可能不是世界上最受欢迎的评论，但我认为重要的是要认识到投资者不是味觉的仲裁者。他们甚至在某种程度上都没有慈善地试图挑选最好的科学。我认为这通常与他们自己在挑选好科学方面取得的成功相关，但他们在那里试图建立一个适合他们业务模式的组合。

Different investors have different business models..

不同的投资者有不同的商业模式。。

Broadly, the markets over time seem to do a pretty good job of turning that mishmash of sources of capital into reasonable capital allocation decisions. But if you are a CEO of a biotech company, and you wake up every morning trying to satisfy the ‘tastes of the market,’ you're just going to wind up disappointed.

从广义上讲，随着时间的推移，市场似乎在将资金来源的混乱转变为合理的资本分配决策方面做得相当不错。但是，如果你是一家生物技术公司的首席执行官，并且你每天早上都会醒来，试图满足“市场口味”，你只会感到失望。

You can't make everybody happy all the time..

你不能一直让每个人都开心。。

Part of the reason for that is people want different things depending on who they are. After our anti-TL1A transaction with Roche was rumored over the summer, we had investors telling us we'd be idiots to do the deal and investors telling us we'd be idiots not to do the deal. If you try to follow the whim of the market, you're just going to wind up with a lot of contradictory guidance..

部分原因是人们想要不同的东西取决于他们是谁。在夏季我们与罗氏的反TL1A交易受到传闻之后，我们让投资者告诉我们，我们是独特的交易，投资者告诉我们，我们是独特的不做交易。如果你试图跟随市场的whim，你只会得到很多相互矛盾的指导。。

There's been plenty of instances where good data or good outcomes have resulted in peculiar stock price reactions. It's a tough thing to call.

有很多情况下，良好的数据或良好的结果导致了特殊的股票价格反应。这是一件艰难的事情。

What’s the current sentiment in biotech as we head toward the J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference?

当我们参加J.P.Morgan医疗会议时，生物技术目前的情绪如何？

GLINE: My guess is that, no matter what the market looks like, people are going to try and put on their best optimistic face for 2024. If it's still going down, they're going to say we're at the bottom. If it's going up, they're going to say we’re past the bottom.

GLINE：我猜测，无论市场是什么样子，人们都会尝试在2024年展示他们最乐观的面孔。如果它还在下降，他们会说我们在底部。如果上升，他们会说我们已经过了底部。

Behind the scenes, it's been a tough time to be a biotech leader. There's a lot of bruised people out there whose companies have done everything they think they were supposed to do, but they don't have the access to capital. A bunch of companies have been shut down or had to do layoffs. People are tired.

在后台，成为生物技术领导者是一个艰难的时刻。那里有很多瘀伤的人，他们的公司已经做了他们认为应该做的一切，但他们无法获得资金。一些公司已经关闭或不得不停产。人们累了。

I think you'll hear the tired in people's voices mixed in with the optimism..

我想你会听到人们声音中充满了乐观。。

No one really knows where the ball is right now. In 2021, if you announced that you had the right kind of discovery platform, people would line up behind it. Over the past year, if you announced you had the right AI program, people would line up behind it. I don't think people totally know what the equivalent is for 2024..

没有人真正知道球在哪里。2021年，如果你宣布你拥有正确的发现平台，人们会站在它后面。在过去的一年中，如果你宣布你拥有正确的AI计划，人们会站在它后面。我不认为人们完全知道2024年的等同物。。

It's a fascinating moment to be a biotech CEO because we are living in an era of amazing clinical data and scientific outcomes. The first CRISPR therapy is now approved [in the U.K.] and there are some really exciting things happening in CAR-T for immunology. We're coming off the back of this incredibly validating moment through the COVID-19 pandemic on mRNA vaccines..

成为生物技术首席执行官是一个迷人的时刻，因为我们正处于一个惊人的临床数据和科学成果的时代。第一种CRISPR疗法现已获得批准（在英国），CAR-T中有一些非常令人兴奋的免疫学事情发生。通过mRNA疫苗上的COVID-19大流行，我们正在摆脱这一令人难以置信的验证时刻。。

This Cambrian explosion of new modalities and science should be a fundamentally optimistic, exciting moment in biotech. But between the [Inflation Reduction Act], capital markets, industry environment and the possibility of macro-economic turmoil, it feels bad out there. It's a weird, discordant combination..

这种寒武纪新模式和科学的爆炸应该是生物技术中一个根本乐观，激动人心的时刻。但是在[通货膨胀减少法]，资本市场，工业环境和宏观经济动荡的可能性之间，感觉不好。这是一个奇怪的，不一致的组合。。